Graffitti Art vs. Tagging

[jonnydehey]

So, I watched the movie Bomb It, and while it glorified the (supposedly)"art" of graffiti, it seemed to be so much more about tagging than art. I thought the movie was going to be about the history of the street art scene. Conversely, the movie was filled with douchbags seemingly self-entitled to spraypaint/scratch their name on every wall, window, and wherever they pleased. There were only a few interviews from people that did actual street art.

I am a strong advocate of the artistic side of graffiti; Grafter, Banksy, Obey, even Brainwash. These are people that take time, effort and want to put a good piece of art on a wall and make a statement. I see nothing wrong with putting a piece of art on a wall- legal or not.

I do not understand how people can go out merely spraypaint their name on a wall and call it art. The taggers give the street artists a bad name and they are the ones that have made street art criminal.

I suppose it boils down to what one considers art and what one considers graffiti.

I am interested to see how the people here at dp.com feel about this kind of stuff.

[CBjornson]

The way I see it, graffiti is "street art" but with the difference holding Grafter, Banksy, Fariey and "Mr. Brainwash" to a different degree is that they made a career out of their lowbrow art. If you look at almost any of the above named artist, they started with a tag. Obey- Andre the Giant has a Posse, Banksy- Rat, Brainwash- Camera guy etc. They all started out tagging, but commercialized themselves into a brand more or less.

[Leveronea]

Go out and get this dvd: http://www.amazon.com/Style-Wars-Cap/dp/B000A7DVZO/ref=sr_1_5?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1287506763&sr=1-5

Its an early history of the graffiti done in the NYC subway, in stations and in cars. These guys are the real pioneers. I live in New York and I see tagging, paste ups, bombing everywhere. Ive always loved graffiti and I even stop to take pictures of things I like when I walk around. But I feel that none of these hot and famous (and expensive) street artists like Mr. Brainwash or Grafter, etc could never produce a work as iconic or original as these guys did in the 70's and 80's. I am an avid Fairey, MBW, Grafter collector, but to see the work these guys did on subway cars, in my opinion, is worth so much more. The value of what the work meant to these original artists, what the underground culture meant to art as a whole, is unparalleled. I spend a lot of $ on street art pieces, don't get my wrong, (im after a Fairey ISO right now), but I feel like the meaning of the work to the artists back then was so much more valuable than it is today.

[DMBTattoo]

very good thread. I am interested to hear about everyones thoughts.

[jonnydehey]

They all started out tagging, but commercialized themselves into a brand more or less.
I agree with this. Those mentioned have turned their art into a profit center, and I see nothing wrong with that.
I appreciate the art aspect of the graffiti. I used MBW, Fairey, Grafter as examples to illustrate the artform rather than use them as examples of “more legitimate” artists. There are plenty of great street artists that haven’t commercialized their art. I commend them for that.
I suppose someone’s “tag” can be considered a piece of art, but I think it is undeniable that when Grafter paints “Bomb It” on a white door in the UK, that is art. The person who came afterward and “tagged” it ruined the piece of art. And their “tag” is not art, but just a hoodlum tarnishing something beautiful.
Taggers—not street artists—are the reason that Home Depot, Lowes and Michaels locks cans of spraypaint behind a cage.

[jonnydehey]

Go out and get this dvd: http://www.amazon.com/Style-Wars-Cap/dp/B000A7DVZO/ref=sr_1_5?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1287506763&sr=1-5



Its next on my netflix list.

[Leveronea]

Its next on my netflix list.

You will enjoy it thoroughly.

[jonnydehey]

Art Before Tagging:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/billthecab/2-4.jpg

Art After Tagging:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2r3id0z.jpg

[CBjornson]

Taggers—not street artists—are the reason that Home Depot, Lowes and Michaels locks cans of spraypaint behind a cage.

I think the reason they do that is because people do this...

http://www.idiotsightings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/paint_huffer.jpg

[jonnydehey]

very good thread. I am interested to hear about everyones thoughts.

We want to hear your thoughts too...

[jonnydehey]

I think the reason they do that is because people do this...

http://www.idiotsightings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/paint_huffer.jpg
That is awesome.

[CBjornson]

That is awesome.

I used to think it was kind of funny when I thought of people huffing and rather childish, until I saw Intervention where there was a lady huffing a shitload of duster (like 15 cans a day) when I realized how serious it really is. It makes you literally psychotic and it's readily available and rather cheap so it's pretty easy to get hooked on it.

/sidnote

[jonnydehey]

I used to think it was kind of funny when I thought of people huffing and rather childish, until I saw Intervention where there was a lady huffing a shitload of duster (like 15 cans a day) when I realized how serious it really is. It makes you literally psychotic and it's readily available and rather cheap so it's pretty easy to get hooked on it.

/sidnote
Saw the same episode. That chick was pretty crazy. When I worked at Best Buy, the computer guys were doing that all day in the back room. Pretty damn crazy.

[Leveronea]

Art Before Tagging:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/billthecab/2-4.jpg

Art After Tagging:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2r3id0z.jpg

I own the first as a print in yellow. If the second was made available as a print, I would buy that too.

[MooreSaxPlease]

^ it looks better after all the "tagging".

But then again, I'm actually a fan of graff!

[DMBTattoo]

We want to hear your thoughts too...

I am forming thoughts on this.... :)

[DMBTattoo]

nothing you already didnt know.....from Wikipedia:
Graffiti (singular: graffito; the plural is used as a mass noun) is the name for images or lettering scratched, scrawled, painted or marked in any manner on property. Graffiti is any type of public markings that may appear in the forms of simple written words to elaborate wall paintings. Graffiti has existed since ancient times, with examples dating back to Ancient Greece and the Roman Empire.[1] In modern times paint, particularly spray paint, and marker pens have become the most commonly used grafitti materials. In most countries, marking or painting property without the property owner's consent is considered defacement and vandalism, which is a punishable crime. Sometimes graffiti expresses social and political messages and a whole genre of artistic expression is based upon spray paint grafitti styles. To some, it is an art form worthy of display in galleries and exhibitions; to others it is merely vandalism. Graffiti has evolved into a pop culture existence often related to underground hip hop music, b-boying, and a lifestyle that remains hidden from the general public.[2] Graffiti can be used as a gang signal to mark territory or to serve as an indicator or "tag" for gang-related activity. Controversies that surround graffiti continue to create disagreement amongst city officials/law enforcement and graffitists who wish to display and appreciate work in public locations. There are many different types and styles of graffiti and it is a rapidly developing artform whose value is highly contested, reviled by many authorities while also subject to protection, sometimes within the same jurisdiction.

[DMBTattoo]

with that said...

I thing Graffiti is a generic term that has been greatly modified. When I was younger I only thought of Graffiti as spray painted names on train cars and in the city. Now I use the term graffiti to associate the tags/tagging. I work near train tracks and if outside will stop what I am doing to watch the cars pass to see the Graffiti/tags. Most train cars have name tags and its interesting to see the cities sometimes written along. Most of that is amatur, I say amature because its not art...a tag of your name. More elaborate name tags with multiple colors and dimensions I consider art. You arent just tagging your name you are taking the time and creativity to be artistic.

Big names like Banksy and Obey...definitely art and artists. I think "street art" delivers a message and is in no way "graffiti or tagging" Even on the smallest scales...if its a picture, even a sticker I would consider street art.

Granted, I now finally understand the thrill of tagging your name. I did so a few weeks ago. However..I took the time to make a stencil and tagged an area near my apartment. (my gf and I have also sticker bombed around but thats for fun..no statements trying to be made). Spraying my name (not my real one) on a dumpster was fun. I am sure it will be erased, but honestly no harm no foul. Nothing a power washer or cleaner couldnt remove. I dont think its artistic and I just wanted to try it for the thrill. Will I do it again? Probably. But at the same time I am looking to make statements in the future too, once I get better at stencils etc etc..

So I dont know if that answers the question or clarifies my stance on the issue. All I know is if it wasnt for this message board I wouldnt have been exposed to ANY of this art or learn about my very small artistic creativity, and I thank Gary and Rob and everyone for that.

[DMBTattoo]

I also want to mention...I dont understand..artists destroying other artists work. I understand the "turf" wars or who had what wall first...but really? Come on...just because XX artist put a huge mural up and is successful in the art world...doesnt giev you the right to come spaltter white paint all over it. Grow up you fuckin bastards, stop trying to ride coat tails and create your own.