**Official DP Auction Rules Thread**

[younevrknow]

Wasn't sure whether to post this in the DMB Concert Poster forum or Buy/Sell/Trade, I think this is the best place for it...

We've seen some DP auctions for prints around here recently and I think this is a good thing...really gets interaction going and is exciting to watch, even if you're not interested in a particular print.

We should have seen something coming like the recent bizzare '98 signed Chicago print- it's time we finalize our own rules for how auctions will go here on DP

1) Initial Auction post: what information should this post have? If there is a reserve, state it in this post, NOT after bids have been placed and DEFINITELY NOT after the auction has already ended.

2) Bids: oftentimes people post numbers, but sometimes they squeek in a post w/words, too....do we want this, or should we ask bids to be their own post and people post their thoughts separately?

3) Bid increments: SSIA...hasn't been a problem yet, but things could definitely get out of hand

4) End Time of auctions (though it seems to have already been determined): ending at midnight, is a 12:00 bid ok? Or does 11:59 win? I have a different proposal for the end of auctions...this isn't eBay, so at midnight the auction doesn't close and sometimes there can be confusion if there's a 125 posted at the same minute as a 100 bid, and the ##s don't go in order....feel free to shoot me down if you think this is a terrible idea (it's problem: could create confusion in final minutes)...in an auction ending at midnight, let the winning bid be the bid made at 11:59, unless there is another bid at 11:59 or 11:58, in which case the auction continues for 1 minute to allow for other bids, but bids after 11:59 should follow some bid increment level (can be determined by the seller). As long as there's higher bids, the auction continues until there are no new (higher) bids for a fill minute. We could call this "DP stoppage time"

Please address these rules as 1) 2) and 3) like I listed, and I have written this out quite hastily and have surely missed things and/or overthought a few things, so please add your own as 4) etc so we can keep this as organized as possible.

The discussion of the rules closes at midnight on Sunday, July 5, and no suggestions will be accepted after 12:00. Gary and Rob will have the final say in any unresolved ideas.

[mcwyffe]

id rather not have auctions...

[McGinnisM]

Wasn't sure whether to post this in the DMB Concert Poster forum or Buy/Sell/Trade, I think this is the best place for it...

We've seen some DP auctions for prints around here recently and I think this is a good thing...really gets interaction going and is exciting to watch, even if you're not interested in a particular print.

We should have seen something coming like the recent bizzare '98 signed Chicago print- it's time we finalize our own rules for how auctions will go here on DP

1) Initial Auction post: what information should this post have? If there is a reserve, state it in this post, NOT after bids have been placed and DEFINITELY NOT after the auction has already ended.

2) Bids: oftentimes people post numbers, but sometimes they squeek in a post w/words, too....do we want this, or should we ask bids to be their own post and people post their thoughts separately?

3) Bid increments: SSIA...hasn't been a problem yet, but things could definitely get out of hand

4) End Time of auctions (though it seems to have already been determined): ending at midnight, is a 12:00 bid ok? Or does 11:59 win? I have a different proposal for the end of auctions...this isn't eBay, so at midnight the auction doesn't close and sometimes there can be confusion if there's a 125 posted at the same minute as a 100 bid, and the ##s don't go in order....feel free to shoot me down if you think this is a terrible idea (it's problem: could create confusion in final minutes)...in an auction ending at midnight, let the winning bid be the bid made at 11:59, unless there is another bid at 11:59 or 11:58, in which case the auction continues for 1 minute to allow for other bids, but bids after 11:59 should follow some bid increment level (can be determined by the seller). As long as there's higher bids, the auction continues until there are no new (higher) bids for a fill minute. We could call this "DP stoppage time"

Please address these rules as 1) 2) and 3) like I listed, and I have written this out quite hastily and have surely missed things and/or overthought a few things, so please add your own as 4) etc so we can keep this as organized as possible.

The discussion of the rules closes at midnight on Sunday, July 5, and no suggestions will be accepted after 12:00. Gary and Rob will have the final say in any unresolved ideas.

Great ideas, but let's let Gary! and Rob decide on these. It's their show to run.

[younevrknow]

Great ideas, but let's let Gary! and Rob decide on these. It's their show to run.

Gary and Rob do decide.....but I know they would probably like to hear from us before making the final decision

Not having auctions on DP is also an option, though I like them (just not the drama that could surround them)

[jacobms1]

I think auctions are good for posters that don't have an easily determined value. For instance I recently had both an Alpine 2005 and Scranton 2008 that were both damaged. Obviously these are both highly sought after posters so it made determining value extremely difficult.

I think the auctions were good in this case. I had several PM's for both posters offering more than what the final bid on either ended up being during the course of the auction, but I wouldn't have felt comfortable originally posting a FS with those prices because for me they weren't worth that much and I would have been embarassed to even ask for it. In both cases though both winners got GREAT deals on prints that were important to them regardless of conidtion.

Just my $.02

[Gary!]

I like the auctions. And I think a set of rules will help a lot. This is a good idea. Keep the suggestions coming.

[Andrewuvm]

I think all of the Auctions started here should be listed without a Reserve.

If you think about Ebay, when you are bidding on an item, you don't know what the reserve is on the item. There really isn't a way for that to work here.

[Bartender]

I think all of the Auctions started here should be listed without a Reserve.

If you think about Ebay, when you are bidding on an item, you don't know what the reserve is on the item. There really isn't a way for that to work here.

A reserve is fine but must be listed in the OP. If someone were to throw a flower sax on here, it should have a reserve. The bidding starts based on the reserve. No bids, no sale. Any bid above the reserve and it sells.

[Andrewuvm]

A reserve is fine but must be listed in the OP. If someone were to throw a flower sax on here, it should have a reserve. The bidding starts based on the reserve. No bids, no sale. Any bid above the reserve and it sells.

Gotcha...so you are saying just start the bidding at what your reserve would be.

[justink]

I've got some ideas I'll type up when I get home!

[Gary!]

Gotcha...so you are saying just start the bidding at what your reserve would be.

Let's go with that. It makes a hell of a lot of sense.

[younevrknow]

1) Initial Auction post should have:

Print(s):
Description: condition? signed? serial numbered? pictures?
Starting Bid (also the reserve price, should include shipping):
Bid increments: seller can specify bid increments of $1, $5, etc
Auction end: (we still need to work this out)

4) End Time of auctions (see my initial thoughts on "DP stoppage time")

[mcwyffe]

im just afraid that all fs threads will turn into auctions.

[trpnwillie]

It's called minimum bid, guys... :thumbsup But if that's the minimum the seller would sell it for, doesn't it then become a BIN?

I think that an end time in general is a bad idea. Look at that flurry of posts in that last one... I'm not sure how we could work around it, but #3 up there is a start. I've seen that same thing in auctions before - but silent auctions.

[justink]

1) Initial Auction post should have:

Print(s):
Description: condition (list in detail any damage)? signed? serial numbered? pictures? history (how and when obtained)?
Shipping: details on how item will be packaged and shipped beforehand, to eliminate any confusion before bidding begins
Starting Bid: (also the reserve price, should include shipping)
Bid increments: seller can specify bid increments of $1, $5, etc
Auction end: seller specifies time and zone. if no zone is specified, revert to US Eastern as a standard.

4) End Time of auctions-

i'd suggest going with the usual ebay type of an auction end. yes, people will try to post in a flurry right at the end, possibly resulting in something like: "79, 66, 73, 81, 77"

in that case, as long as all those bids were BEFORE the end time (ie. 11:59 for an auction ending at 12:00... all 12:00 bids are void), then you would take the highest bid timestamped at 11:59. in this example, 81 would win. that way there's no confusion with adding minutes, period. and it's still fair and fun. this is also better for the seller because people would be forced to "guess" with a higher bid right at the end, rather than low balling it in hopes to get an extra minute to continue bidding...

does that make sense? i tried to type it out the way i'm thinking it in my head...

technically these sales would be a cross between a FS(BIN) and an Auction. if the seller wants a reserve at a high price, and no one bids, then the Auction is really like a FS thread with no bites. the seller keeps the art and isn't upset about a low sell. but if the seller starts with low reserve/starting bid, there's a chance for more bids, and that's where the competition and market comes into play, making more of an auction type sell.

[guster14]

I agree w/ justink's ideas. I know when I was bidding on Kenny's TR3 print the other night, I purposely bid higher than I wanted thinking someone was going to bid only a $1 or 2 more than the previous bid. And in that auction, the winner bid after 12pm and outbid me again, which was cool since we haven't established a set standard.

In the end, karma works in cool ways and I got the print anyways since he backed out. Win win.

[trpnwillie]

Well, I've participated in a couple of auctions. I highly doubt I'll ever run one. That said, it's up to what you all decide.

I still don't like the idea of the "reserve" being the starting bid. If you tell me the lowest you'll go on a poster (reserve) is $100, guess what I'm going to offer? If anyone else offered more than that... they're just silly.

Another problem I see with the flurry-of-posts ordeal is that if an auction was running, and that someone bid, let's say... $50 higher, but a minute late - how do you not feel inclined to get that extra $50? We can only hold eachother accountable to a point here, and people get emotionally invested, as we saw earlier.

[mcwyffe]

A reserve is fine but must be listed in the OP. If someone were to throw a flower sax on here, it should have a reserve. The bidding starts based on the reserve. No bids, no sale. Any bid above the reserve and it sells.

alllen,
you kmow find and dandy that i fucking play my by own set of rulesla, and i do nt care who eknow about it.

[Jobiwan24]

im just afraid that all fs threads will turn into auctions.

Indeed. That would blow.

[justink]

Well, I've participated in a couple of auctions. I highly doubt I'll ever run one. That said, it's up to what you all decide.

I still don't like the idea of the "reserve" being the starting bid. If you tell me the lowest you'll go on a poster (reserve) is $100, guess what I'm going to offer? If anyone else offered more than that... they're just silly.

Another problem I see with the flurry-of-posts ordeal is that if an auction was running, and that someone bid, let's say... $50 higher, but a minute late - how do you not feel inclined to get that extra $50? We can only hold eachother accountable to a point here, and people get emotionally invested, as we saw earlier.

that's where the rules come into play. In all fairness, we have to go by the honor system here. But if someone were to circumvent the rules and NOT sell to the winning bidder (per our agreed upon rules), both the seller and the eventual buyer should both be banned for some predetermined period of time, or not allowed to view or post in the FS forum altogether... Up to Gary and rob I guess, but we need some sort of regulation/consequences shall someone not follow the auction rules.

That's why I think we should adopt some rules and regulations with a sticky soon.

[ThePrestige]

I think there should be a no sniping rule. Similar to that of norbyjakes auctions. Concertposters.com I think is the website.

If the auction ends at midnight and someone bids at 11:59 then the auction extends for 10 minutes (or something) to let everyone bid if they want.

Just my 2 cents, And this will for sure be a rule if I ever start an auction.

[justink]

I think there should be a no sniping rule. Similar to that of norbyjakes auctions. Concertposters.com I think is the website.

If the auction ends at midnight and someone bids at 11:59 then the auction extends for 10 minutes (or something) to let everyone bid if they want.

Just my 2 cents, And this will for sure be a rule if I ever start an auction.

But what happens when that ten minutes is up and people jump in at the last second on that? "sniping" is setting up an automated bidder to try at the last second. That's impossible here. This is really just an "auction", and last minute bids is a part of that.

Although, at a live auction, the auctioneer does say, "going once, twice, sold"... So I can see your argument in allowing all bidders an opportunity to counter.

[mxpxillini35]

I think there should be a no sniping rule. Similar to that of norbyjakes auctions. Concertposters.com I think is the website.

If the auction ends at midnight and someone bids at 11:59 then the auction extends for 10 minutes (or something) to let everyone bid if they want.

Just my 2 cents, And this will for sure be a rule if I ever start an auction.

yeah...this is called popcorn bidding (based on the BAMA works auctions...they run the same way).

I think it's an option that people could present...but it would have to be stated...I think sniping is perfectly fine though...

I also think that auctions should be discouraged though...that's not really a "proper" use of the forum in my eyes...you don't see people running an auction at their table at a card or comic book convention...you go there to sell and/or buy...plain and simple

[justink]

I've seen LOTS of silent auctions at card shows actually. Not a bad idea for
some items.

[mxpxillini35]

I've seen LOTS of silent auctions at card shows actually. Not a bad idea for
some items.

LOTS? as in a majority of the way things are sold there are through an auction format?

I'd be hard pressed to think it's greater than 10% of the items sold...

[Bartender]

alllen,
you kmow find and dandy that i fucking play my by own set of rulesla, and i do nt care who eknow about it.

Huh?

:lmao

[justink]

LOTS? as in a majority of the way things are sold there are through an auction format?

I'd be hard pressed to think it's greater than 10% of the items sold...

Ha, of course not. Prolly less than .05% of sales if you want to get technical. I was just saying it's not uncommon

[clwatt3]

http://cdn.ccomrcdn.com/image/446/410/CDN-IP/cc-common/mlib/4761/10/4761_12548321414.jpg

Bump.